ࡱ> a`Root Entry FW$Data i1TableSnWordDocument5'2  !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_=jklmnopwxyz{|}~ !"#%'()*+,-./0146789:;<>?MNOPQRST30TablevmRoot Entry FCData i1TableSnWordDocumentBb  !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_Jdefghqjklmnoprstu0Tablecrly with those who think in inviting them. if there are crazy enough to do so.) There were different and coincident evaluations about the previous experiences of Head of States participation in the WSF events. However, the following consensus was reached and the issue remained open for new consultations and debates. Consensus In case of having the presence of Head of States, we need to consider that they attract an exceptional attention from the press and even from WSF participants. In this way, it is necessary to avoid that any event with them be held at the same time of self-organized events held by the movements and organizations taking part at the WSF. For evident reasons, an activity with Head of States must not be placed in the Opening session, and even less, in the Closing session, in order to avoid that the media consider it as WSF "conclusion". Answering to these concerns, in case one or many Heads of States be present at the WSF, the methodological proposal is: 1) That the event be held after the program of self organized activities (comprised between the 8 am and 6:30 pm), that is: they can only be registered after the 6:30 pm 2) That the event do not be placed in the opening session (27), nor in the Pan Amazonian day (28), which will be a moment for presenting contents and issues to the participant organizations, particularly the Amazonian issues. 3) That the activity be not held in the Closing day (February 1st) when there are scheduled events for presenting results and conclusions by the participant organizations and movements. 4) It is proposed, as consequence, that those events with Head of States be held the 29 and/or 30 January 2009, after 6 pm and outside of the WSF territory (composed by UFPA and UFRA). Open issue There were three (3) proposals on the table about who organize the activity: a) Being a co-organized activity, according to the experience made in other WSFs: the WSF "Organizing Committee" (which could mean the Brazilian "Facilitating Group", the Pan Amazonian Council - under constitution - or the WSF International Council) organizes the event. This would mean to do the invitations (setting up the list of those who would be invited or not, etc.) and arrives to a consensus on the methodology and issues to be dealt with (someone has proposed a "round table of dialogue and controversies" model, as it happened with some governments and political parties in other WSF events in Porto Alegre, only that now it would be held with head of States and who would talk from the side of the civil society etc.) b) That the International Council decides in its meeting in Copenhague only the general "framework" in which those activities could be held (points 1 to 4, listed before), but that all the rest be solved in a self organized way, by those who invite the head of States. c) A co-organized activity on the 29, only with the head of States from the Amazonian region, and other with head of States outside from the Amazoni on the 30th, debating with those who invite them the possibility of having the activity in only one place and time (always after 6 pm) or in many different venues. To be seen. [Reporter, even being late: Gustavo, CUT Brasil / July 26 2008, with amendments made by by Chico Whitaker - CBJB Brazil] THIS IS A FIRST VERSION, SUBJECT TO AMMENDMENTS BY THOSE PARTICIPATING AT THE WORKING GROUP AND, AFTER A CONSENSUS IN THE GROUP, WILL BE SENT TO THE INTERNATIONAL COUNCIL. -- -- Dr. Teivo Teivainen Head of Department, Professor of World Politics Department of Political Science Unioninkatu 37 POB 54, 00014 University of Helsinki Finland *phone: +358-9-19124858 *cell: +358-50-3505120 * e-mail: HYPERLINK "mailto:teivo.teivainen@helsinki.fi"teivo.teivainen@helsinki.fi On Aug 04 08, at 1:26 AM, peter waterman wrote: I have a simpler answer to the question posed above and argued below: THE WSF MUST BECOME MORE AUTONOMOUS OF CAPITAL AND STATE, CHURCH AND PATRIARCHY, EMPIRE AND MILITARY. I am well aware of the compromises the Social Forums have made with both statespeople and corporations. And of the fact that such compromises have NOT been extended to the Zapatistas, whose military moment was short and long past. And whose example has inspired the global justice and solidarity movement. The complex and slippery formulations in the proposal below speak of bad faith, a messy compromise and are an invitation to endless argument about which head, or which state is 'progressive'. (South Africa under the ANC Government of Mbeki? In the future under Zuma?) The originality and prestige of the WSF rests on its 'representation' of global civil society. 'Representation' is, of course, a disputed concept, as is 'civil society'. I take these terms to be aspirational and processal: that means that the WSF should be seeking ever more energetically to engage and speak for civil society - the latter understood as that social force that emancipates society from the hegemony of capital, state, organised religion, militarism, patriarchy, etc. With the proposal below, it will be leading figures and/or organs of the WSF that will split the WSF rather than those 'extremists' they have castigated. In so far as 'politics' is taken to be that which pertains to state power, it will be the WSF that 'politicises' the forum, rather than those who have been accused of wishing to do so. Oh, and I am not relieved that Sarkozy will remain univited. Firstly, who the hell would invite him? Secondly, however, this leaves open the possibility that a 'progressive' European leader, of some 'progressive' state will be found suitable for a future invitation. I am appalled that whilst the embattled Zapatistas continue to be excluded, the argument below would allow for the possible presence of the head of a one-party dictatorship (addressed here by his first name!), and one condemned by feminists and (global) civil society - if not his courts - of raping his step-daughter. What this whole exercise smacks of is the social-partnership politics of Social Democratic, Communist and Populist parties and movements of the 20th Century - compromises that led to the irresistible rise of the Neo-Liberalism the WSF is supposed to be against! It makes possible invitations to 'socially-responsible' corporations or CEOs. Also to heads of 'progressive' inter-state organisations, such as the International Labour Organisation (itself profoundly compromised with capital, state and globalisation). Finally, it cannot but confuse an international public increasingly confronted by state-sponsored, corporation-supported efforts that have long been trying to profit from the successes of the WSF and the global justice and solidarity movement, such as 'Make Poverty History!'. Should we not now change the slogan of the WSF from 'Another World is Possible!' to 'An Old World is Possible Again!'? Peter Waterman On Aug 04 08, at 10:25 AM, CACIM wrote: Monday, August 4, 2008 Here is something from another list (another two lists) that those on this list will surely want to know about, and maybe also to discuss. I am also copying this to the authors, Teivo Teivainen and Peter Waterman, with the request that if you are already on this list, please consider posting such information and/or comments here; and if you are not, then to consider being so and doing so. JS fwd On Aug 04 08, at 3:20 PM, Francine Mestrum wrote: Away from capital, church, state, corporations, even empire Wow Peter, how very well said! This formulation certainly will have success! Such a clear, easy to understand and pure message! But then, I come to think: who will pay? Who pays for your travel costs? Who pays the organizations that pay for your travel costs? Who pays the ngos? How many leftwing philanthropists do we have in our movement? Ever thought that we can only exist and meet thanks to capitalism? Thanks to the air companies that bring us all over the world? Thanks to the states and corporations that give us their space and infrastructure? Who will pay the secretariat, the organization, the travel costs??? Or shall we only virtually exist? Through the internet? Do you believe that? Please let us stop to speak and think in slogans. They do not help us. Now seriously. I have no real problems with the invitation of our heads of state or governments. Sure, it will lead to very difficult discussions on who can be invited and who not, but that is a minor problem. A speech by Correa or Morales can boost our movement(s), can be very mobilizing and give us some media attention. They can make us stronger. So no, I am not against is. But there is another part of Peters message that is very correct: it is now the organizing committee/methodology commission that is politicizing the WSF, whereas for other matters they absolutely refuse it. So I think that if we invite heads of state of government, it should also be possible to give other political gguidelines to the Forum: apart from the self-organised events, there could be some co-organised events on specific issues that concern us all: the food or energy crisis, trade issues, development, financial matters. I still would like to defend the idea of organizing some major debates with the best people we have who can present to us the terms of the debate, the context in which we are working, the most recent developments. This could help the different movements to take political positions, as networks or movements, not as WSF. It could help to prepare the alliances we need to have a real political impact. If the WSF wants to survive, it should be more than an open space for meeting, it should help us prepare our positions and our alternatives. We are losing momentum, heads of state are not enough to save us. This is very urgent. Francine On Aug 04 08, at 6:14 PM, Giuseppe Caruso wrote: HI all, I find incredibly instructive but also a bit disappointing to learn of the (presumably lengthy) process to establish where to draw the line between good and bad heads of state. What i find relevant, even more than the outcome of this process is that one such process is taking place. Of course the inevitable outcome of such a (simplistic) (political) process is dividing the heads of states in those who are with us and those who are not (and therefore are against us?). I'm sure there are many who indeed consider ALL heads of state as unwelcome guests but i don't seem to find any reflection of that debate in the draft document and perhaps even those who consider ALL heads of state parties to engage (more or less conflictually), and i'm sure there are also... point made i guess. Whatever process is reduced to simplistic binaries is a process of control that aims at pulling together multiple streams in one unitary subject that can be steered towards achieving goals blah-di-blah. It is clearly the process towards turning the forum into a "traditional" "counter-hegemonic" "political" "movement" "whatever". Having said (the obvious) that i find amusing the caution in the document: the sensitive care not to overwhelm other events with the big ones, HA! you can't quite have the cake and eat it can you? Yes you can have coverage, precisely of what the media like, the big events and the heads of state: the WSF supports the cahvez and the morales of the world, the WSF is a convention of social democrats and populists and as usual, precisely as in the old world, the minuscule rivulets of experimentation and uniqueness are quickly subsumed by the usual big McDonalds and Starbucks of politics (social democracy, populism, whatever). Oh well, it may probably mean that the innovators will have to move to another temporary liberated/open space away from the big brands. Of course this seems to be precisely the nature/trajectory of movement cycle.. or is it? Ciao Giu On Aug 05 08, at 8:39 AM, Madhuresh wrote: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: heads of state in the wsf? Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:50:35 -0400 From: Reitan, Ruth To: Francine Mestrum , CACIM , Post WSFDiscuss CC: Teivo Teivainen , , Reitan, Ruth Carol References: <002a01c8f5a2$fb4f3b80$0a00000a@waterman> <1AB298FC-C50B-4F41-8B38-22BCDF4F4E0D@cacim.net> <000a01c8f617$96ecc840$c4c658c0$@be> Greetings from South Tyrol (and soon enough to be Miami, again). And thanks to Jai, Teivo, Peter and Francine for cross-'contaminating' our lists. I propose the following: Keeping in mind that (macro)regionalism is the likely global trend in the near and medium term, and giving due respect to the 'magical' formula that is the WSF Charter of Principles, I think we should be cautious about altering the Charter to include elected officials in their 'official' capacity (not, as the Charter currently allows, as individuals), because it might have unforeseen--or wholly foreseeable, depending on one's current opinion--consequences, such as: the polarization of the Forum space, outright campaigning and counter-campaigning, bringing back the competitive and majoritarian logic of electoral politics, the possiblity of charismatic leaders instrumentalizing the Forum for their own advantage, triggering a boycott, or at least considerable protests, on the part of women (and some men) who find Daniel Ortega more politically--because sexual abuses of power are fundamentally political--vile than Sarkozy, and, finally, begging the obvious next question of: why invite our ostensible 'allies' in political parties or office and not in armed groups? Inviting Ortega at the extreme but even Morales at the other begs the question of why not the Zapatistas? Or Hamas? Or Hezbollah? Or Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia? The answer to me is not obvious; if it is to you, then you need to have a long, introspective look at why that is so. While the Charter mentions its support for non-violent struggle two or three times, are we really all in agreement that this is the only supportable method? Do we really want to have that discussion in the IC? Maybe we do. If so, then invite the political parties, by all means. Things will start to get interesting again (and the SWP should be the first to thank you for it). But if the IC does not want to open the discussion re: armed groups, then they (we) should not take up the debate on political parties or elected officials. Because doing so makes some untested assumptions about a shared 'common sense' and 'common methods of struggle' that I do not think we really have; or if we do have it, then 'we' are not as diverse as I assume we are, nor as 'we' ostensibly aspire to be. How to avoid this unhappy but largely foreseeable confrontation with our diversity, while safeguarding the WSF Charter of Principles in the off-chance that its current formula is what makes the whole thing work? I would say kick it down to the level of the regions: Because what makes 'common sense' in the current context of Latin America may also make sense in Europe today, but it may make less sense elsewhere, or next year. Is there not also being planned, simultaneously to the WSF 2009, an Amazon Social Forum, or it's equivalent? Perhaps that regional committee, if it deems it politically useful and with proper protections of the Forum space and schedule, could take it upon itself to organize such parallel or auxiliary events. This would forego a big roiling discussion within the WSF IC in September that may snowball at future meetings, and would avoid the WSF making such a political decision for the 'world' of social forums, so to speak. I think an equivalent decision has already been taken by the ESF Preparatory Assembly around the time of the last ESF in Athens, to allow parties to be openly represented and thus to drop the charade of front organizations which had developed within the ESF, or am I mistaken? In any case, this is a decision that, while it will still be controversial, is most appropriately discussed at the regional level, not something over which we should try to amend the WSF Charter. In the context of South America, inviting Morales (for sure) and Ortega (eh, maybe) could have positive, synergistic effects; but I foresee big problems if we attempt to take this up at the IC for the whole WSF. Leave it to the level of the regional social forum to decide, if at all. Ruth On Aug 04 08, at 11:45 PM, Francine Mestrum wrote: Thanks a lot Ruth for your useful comments. However, - I do not think the proposal implies a change of the Charter: making a difference between the 'individual' and the 'function' is of course totally irrelevant when we speak of heads of state. So one could easily say Morales eg is invited as 'individual'. - The question on armed groups is very relevant: the case for the Zapatistas could be made since there can be discussion on whether it is really an armed group. In general, whatever we think of the means for the struggle, even if we approve of armed struggle in certain cases, the Forum as such cannot accept them for obvious reasons of legitimacy. - I think that at any rate, a decision for inviting a head of state can only be taken by consensus in the IC. I do not think there will ever be a consensus, not on Ortega and not on Hezbollah. - I do not remember the ESF having decided to accept parties; inviting heads of state does not imply to accept parties. - Leaving the decision up to the regional level does not seem to me a good solution. It will give rise to exactly the same discussions in a context that is sometimes more difficult, eg Europe. - If, eg for India, inviting heads of state is not possible, than the question is solved for lack of consensus. Enjoy yourself in Tirol! Francine On Aug 05 08, at 6:36 AM, kolya abramsky wrote: hi, i am finding this debate interesting, if a little stifling, and repetitive of old debates...I do not want to wade into the debate, I just want to ask a question about terminology. In one of the previous emails, Francine wrote: In general, whatever we think of the means for the struggle, even if we approve of armed struggle in certain cases, the Forum as such cannot accept them for obvious reasons of legitimacy. can i just ask, do you mean legitimacy or legality? it seems they are two fundamentally different words and have been mixed up here. something can be completely legitimate and persecuted by the law, and letting legality define the boundaries of confrontational politics seems to be missing many many lessons of history. I am not saying law should be broken for the hell of it, or that there are not many practical reasons that particular organizations (in this case WSF, but it could be any other) in their institutional form need to at least visibly play within the law. Of course this may often be the case. 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A!"#$%b Zjbjb'Th [ [ [8D[`[di0[: \",\,\,\,\,\,\"e$e$e$e$e$e$e,%kRwmPe_,\,\,\,\,\Pe"e,\,\i"e"e"e,\,\,\"e"e(T,\"e"e"e"e[ = [`"e"ei0i"eSn"eSn"e"e#8"8Debate on WSFDiscuss on the participation of Head of States at the WSF 2009 S 050808 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teivo Teivainen" <HYPERLINK "mailto:teivo.teivainen@helsinki.fi"teivo.teivainen@helsinki.fi> To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:nigd-list@nigd.org"nigd-list@nigd.org> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:11 PM Subject: [nigd-list] heads of state in the wsf? Dear NIGD, One of the controversial issues in the WSF events since the beginning has been the relationship with states and, more particulary, with heads of states. One of the issues to be debated in the Copenghaguen International Council meeting is the following draft document on this question. Love & peace, Teivo Outline for the debate about the participation of Head of States at the WSF 2009 This document is a draft for discussion prepared by a working group composed by WSF International Council Content and Methdology commission members: Ana Maria, OCLAE Brasil; Andr, MST Brasil; Chico W., CBJP Brasi; Gina, AFM Peru; Gustavo, CUT Brasil; Isolda, MMM Brasil; Jos Miguel, CTC Cuba; Rodrigo, CLACSO Brasil; Salete, IPF Brasil). This draft is still being discussed by its members and it will be submitted for the assessment of the International Council members gathered in its next meeting (September, in Copenhague, Denmark). The debate had as starting point the fact that Heads of State or governments have been present to the WSF, invited by the organizations participating at the event and in accordance with its Charter of Principles. It was like so in 2005 and 2006. It is highly probably that the issues will be posed for 2009, considering that WSF will be carried out in a region where there are many national governments which are considered progressists or also left governments. If only the Amazon region is considered (the 8 sovereign countries of the Amazon region and 1 French colony struggling for its independence), the list, can include, according who prepares it, the following governments (in alphabetical order): Chvez / Venezuela; Correa/Ecuador; Evo / Bolivia, y Lula/Brasil. If we consider all Latin America, the list is even longer and polemic (again, the order is alphabetical): Bachelet/Chile; Cristina/Argentina; Lugo/Paraguay; Ortega/Nicaragua, Ral/Cuba y Tabar/Uruguay. [It was a consensus, however, that following head should not be invited as they are considered undesirable right wings: [Uribe / Colombia , Garca / Peru and Sarkozy / president of the colonial metropolis which subdue Guyana]. (this would have to be discussed concrete++9+--4-q-r-------....-0.0t0u0v0w0000011112222666666677:,;=*>>>PPU(VEWDzDzDzDzDzDzDzDzDzDzDzDzDzDzDzDzDzǝǝǝ( *hXmhXmB*^J_H mH ph sH )hXmhXmB* ^J_H aJmH ph*IzsH %hXmhXmB*^J_H mH ph sH hXmhXm5^J_H mH sH hXmhXm^J_H mH sH  hXmhXm To: <HYPERLINK "mailto:nigd-list@nigd.org"nigd-list@nigd.org> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:11 PM Subject: [nigd-list] heads of state in the wsf? Dear NIGD, One of the controversial issues in the WSF events since the beginning has been the relationship with states and, more particulary, with heads of states. One of the issues to be debated in the Copenghaguen International Council meeting is the following draft document on this question. Love & peace, Teivo Outline for the debate about the participation of Head of States at the WSF 2009 This document is a draft for discussion prepared by a working group composed by WSF International Council Content and Methdology commission members: Ana Maria, OCLAE Brasil; Andr, MST Brasil; Chico W., CBJP Brasi; Gina, AFM Peru; Gustavo, CUT Brasil; Isolda, MMM Brasil; Jos Miguel, CTC Cuba; Rodrigo, CLACSO Brasil; Salete, IPF Brasil). This draft is still being discussed by its members and it will be submitted for the assessment of the International Council members gathered in its next meeting (September, in Copenhague, Denmark). The debate had as starting point the fact that Heads of State or governments have been present to the WSF, invited by the organizations participating at the event and in accordance with its Charter of Principles. It was like so in 2005 and 2006. It is highly probably that the issues will be posed for 2009, considering that WSF will be carried out in a region where there are many national governments which are considered progressists or also left governments. If only the Amazon region is considered (the 8 sovereign countries of the Amazon region and 1 French colony struggling for its independence), the list, can include, according who prepares it, the following governments (in alphabetical order): Chvez / Venezuela; Correa/Ecuador; Evo / Bolivia, y Lula/Brasil. If we consider all Latin America, the list is even longer and polemic (again, the order is alphabetical): Bachelet/Chile; Cristina/Argentina; Lugo/Paraguay; Ortega/Nicaragua, Ral/Cuba y Tabar/Uruguay. [It was a consensus, however, that following head should not be invited as they are considered undesirable right wings: [Uribe / Colombia , Garca / Peru and Sarkozy / president of the colonial metropolis which subdue Guyana]. 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A!"#$% In original, or TT s comment / insert ? ist] heads of state in the wsf?teresting t could be any other) in theirPAGE  PAGE 6 -;.;>>>>>>>?,?\???%@E@}@@@@hAiAAAPBFFHHIH 1$7$8$H$gdXmIHIIKKMMPPPPPQQQVQQQ RZRRR;SjSSS,T 1$7$8$H$gdXm 1$7$8$H$gdXm,TyTTT8UeUUUUUU(V,V-VVVWWEWWWWWWWZZZ 1$7$8$H$gdXm 1$7$8$H$gdXmEWWZZ&tv>$&(*,68<>Z\,2ҿُzpzhU%hXmhXmB*^J_H mH phsH hXmhXm6hXmhXm5CJhXm0JmHnHuhXm hXm0JjhXm0JU%hXmhXmB*^J_H mH phsH %hXmhXmB*^J_H mH phsH %hXmhXmB*^J_H mH phsH  hXmhXm%hXmhXmB*^J_H mH ph sH %hXmhXmB* ^J_H mH ph'asH ZZZZZZvT,.02468\*h]hgdXm &`#$gdXm 1$7$8$H$gdXm# & 0` P@1$7$8$H$^gdXm":pXm|. A!"#$% In original, or TT s comment / insert ? ist] heads of state in the wsf?teresting t could be any other) in theirPAGE  PAGE 6 Debate on WSFDiscuss on the Ps8cuss on the Ps % 0:pXm|. A!"#$% On Aug 05 08, at 3:51 PM, peter waterman wrote: I have already received 4-5 reactions to my 'heads of state @ WSF' piece. Thanx to all who have contributed. I am awaiting further reactions - particularly from people within the I